This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add. " e( l- T9 A9 v$ E# s2 t5 H" A
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He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
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) J3 o% L2 E1 C9 K* M6 Mcmm talk about programming one. # \# C# k6 N$ q" K* \
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I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like
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you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so
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that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
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; f0 \+ ?- a! l( @for. % W( }- x6 N! _% V
: J5 v0 M! o# oThe only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so : w- y: A' i, Z @
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that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly 8 Z3 T: p4 K4 V2 ?- I ?
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pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on. $ k. z, |0 @2 w( G& o' ^, p
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这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。
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4 n* P( x _$ } |他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。 7 {9 N% X7 X* b
. L& R c: k' M6 n+ j* d我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。( F3 o% J b9 i% y( U' p
8 J% X6 W, ^7 b( I可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必: A- d8 j( V! t2 P/ B, O3 h
0 Q( w4 C4 o i" t9 h然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭
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我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我
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- v A& P% o9 m( \读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续3 S+ I( Q/ p0 m5 W W- j5 h
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8 }' S0 f4 x9 C8 d. j- X5 O. bI (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade. 1 E; ?& q' \$ d% p* w
' g) Y4 ^( w! a& n" v6 hLet's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.7 G/ X" F% r3 M; d
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Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
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In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that . W- y/ u9 ]( d6 J
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he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE
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THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
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Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
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" p2 ^" a4 r- V5 Xcar's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?/ x5 a* }8 m I/ X. l# H
我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。 ( u! [3 p" z! g+ ^3 X- d+ w' D
如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。# _" M1 ? X% P$ {; Q" ^
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。
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事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个
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优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样8 {1 W" }8 o" ^' V
/ R6 T, ]! C6 W5 s0 W4 O1 j, A类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹- O* n6 R* F; {
7 [4 @0 J k6 @ G6 i: X& m) R, Z，对不对？ 怎么会出错？) j! o' d- i9 I0 d) T
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i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people. / v! d4 k/ y) B3 q
GoldenPine O/ X- v6 n* D7 t" |3 s$ v8 w! d
! u/ K0 e& [9 J0 U嗨，
- P% A& ~3 k+ P* g5 Z我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。 8 W6 O9 h# N, i" W
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my machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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# i" b( J1 f: l) vat the end? $ H( J! f& e7 z$ s) M
我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？ 8 j; f* S5 f) q5 }3 Q% ~, m1 d$ S
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" C" [+ M# ^3 G7 T, X& u/ M) BIs that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?3 E& U3 F' S2 |4 y
3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？
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" k" o5 g8 d! K$ Dits the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
3 D u" E( N) q V# Y4 d& \8 e9 K正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。
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10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.
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Perhaps you meant 10.006?
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4 q4 K" ~9 m. Q) v' rIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the $ o4 @! [+ o9 t; e1 d
5 I( X6 v2 d7 ~& S, U% t, A& ^stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the " |2 F/ b8 D* E5 R' A4 a& i6 u, _
; e1 b, k9 u- n$ @2 @2 }5 V$ G6 poptimal "attack angle".
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Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the , X( ]4 _* N% o _& Q
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ring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If . k2 B f4 o9 y' L) A9 z F
8 y* h7 K4 u3 T: r# q$ ~it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong. ' ~% [3 \% w& E! X- z( d9 e1 {
0 `5 w( P1 r, B. @" u: e% DIf it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
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10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。 % x* b5 i( Y8 Q" R* R( D& X
+ F( F3 l3 U `, i可能你认为是10.006?1 ~5 D* R8 j/ s* t: s
你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确
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定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.
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一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度
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然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能& X+ R+ S' q) o! t. Z0 ~. d
, z) P5 X0 k8 {+ l% P4 M1 w+ K有错误。
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, e- I% ?& B9 h: ]如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。 / t0 a. s7 L1 k$ a& w
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4 z/ C7 n9 e5 T- b* w0 gAgreed Ken,0 K% |: M9 i) s1 E n7 j( O8 i8 q
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I
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realise the choice is not always there. ; I/ _3 m9 D1 f5 T& [8 }- j
3 Y P2 p) v4 ]3 m& c5 [3 aI always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder ( S' J9 x& E0 h- B% e, V1 X( E
8 j% t4 {& X( H1 d* E! Oto the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.
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The other matters to add up are, $ g1 p/ c) u& N! x/ Q. L
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine : * o" [/ G( ]" x; a/ g0 [
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
+ H W+ f( R/ s% @the algorithm used for the dia result :
0 G/ U# l" V3 n' c7 v$ F- E& |# Kroom conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :
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: L+ E0 }" j! J/ l4 bGood luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. ; ?# t ^1 o+ c0 b0 t5 _% e, a/ L
同意肯恩，
- l/ R" ~" [+ [, V* d这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。 ' q6 b0 }4 A4 J% k! w! x" ~
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我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确
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其他因素加起来是， 7 N/ d8 g( \5 [0 \+ }6 m
机器的测量的不确定： ) [0 b0 E% h& H, e8 {
环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）:
9 W2 V0 W0 @1 {: A6 V) P- h结果圆的运算法则：/ f! x5 ?" w2 P. t! J% ^5 @0 K2 _
房间环境（临时湿度） :4 n6 L M4 p! o
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+ ~. V( j# \4 F) l( L9 Q2 pG.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!
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Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?
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在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？
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$ ~ H9 i0 V2 K6 o6 K" nIt's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,
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6 R# h+ F2 Y: `# E" Zthen use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.
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That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.
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As a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ? 6 o* U2 }5 |' D- @) K
它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，
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使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。 $ c. b& |+ g& k+ {6 V8 r) P
- b: B3 H4 Z% P: X8 {那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。
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" v a/ |5 R1 O0 T: p1 d( I稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？ : C& j, M( e: k$ g! J
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' H" Y7 R F: k+ }- C8 LI would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage. : V5 `1 _2 j) |* A' s, P
3 ^2 w% M( X( J8 S! l1 X我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆
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You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC9 s! u5 n7 Y |. i
What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
, C" q+ _5 | r, p* ]" h4 _What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm9 j3 @) B7 N) Z
What is the temperature in the room?- Z1 d F% p3 x9 Z* u3 u, I
What diameter is the ring gauge?5 l5 A. s" M$ s6 z i! {6 \
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Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 & r( j% \' y1 h8 h
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people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.4 w* V. r) @' R4 u" @6 R( y( Z4 n
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你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！0 U2 @7 R+ w6 o
' U3 C x s2 J: d哪类机器？手动或自动* I7 _( D8 V) y8 v' G& _
哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP2009 i# z( x K+ o" Q J& Q8 \
探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米' I G, g E/ N: \1 \! L
房间中，温度多少？
) x$ D% B0 n* \' k& ^环规直径为多少？
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4 d- W1 [: b1 U2 W! w- f3 a& w让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
楼主
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
