This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add.# I+ M% T+ p+ Y+ y0 y8 C/ p
3 P9 C; u1 _% q0 ?8 m- ^
He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
5 B8 d u' `" ], c; H% N/ h6 O5 h' q
cmm talk about programming one.
3 G6 N: J, Y' K& r6 b6 n. P2 K r# G, ?8 f
I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.2 F( N# s- ]8 Z/ r0 c7 h
/ ]5 F8 n: g( Q8 L: V5 t9 w
Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like7 d) ~& L8 w! {5 }4 d
2 K; L/ ?. N* J2 T
you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so& E( }5 A% C$ I" Q# {5 u' R
1 E8 @0 ]! b2 ~that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works9 T2 I6 r" v5 Q: d g
0 L7 s% A( E2 lfor.( y( \% \$ @% Y$ h) a/ ?
U( O' k; \4 V8 ~The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so) p$ S4 D: W0 u% o7 L
; J9 s9 ]7 I5 s# K: v
that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly
3 \* ^- k9 x" r4 \+ H6 C4 b& a$ n: ]2 o+ g7 |' l
pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on.
& u# W9 Z# T, L1 L
) [% B0 s4 T3 J- V1 ?9 V- H
0 j5 `0 z" P# b& R* r; v这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。; l! a! f( G$ K: a6 h' ~4 J1 F' A# Q
7 h2 |* w" c# ~& j2 l
他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。/ n- v, v& P; c% D2 H, g! V! {, w# n
7 O3 ]5 ^7 F) D0 a( c. K5 L& M我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。
9 W) u& M2 O3 F+ p3 a1 c" }( |1 \
7 L6 i! L4 \+ {8 o, m可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必
" S( c) _/ O! w( `0 R
( S% I8 M2 O1 E" N6 r) \然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭* D1 _6 L3 K8 l! c. j
4 n5 t& n7 b# {" o7 n( F
我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我# q" z3 L* s. y- p4 D# z
: ~6 _2 |; E s2 r$ X! {* z读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续# I$ u* ~' U; b% z4 h
+ H& g, U) T! `
0 [, x1 X, D. p9 O
9 K+ ]8 S5 S; {( C% F! b* EI (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.
1 ~5 E# l& O! K) c) V1 L% l g7 w# H& U2 G7 h2 [
Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.4 c9 M$ E' c9 U9 G* u
1 G5 M+ U$ j& s0 T4 I, t
0 K( a7 E! ^6 G8 Z; SNope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
! k/ b {* ]1 e, v& C7 Q8 F" Z+ I/ G2 L
In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that
( t, c) d8 s1 s L! ?. G R) e6 E" t4 [: N: ]- w6 o' g
he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE
) O; P- l# \. l9 ?8 _
$ C3 v! u! h+ B$ R) r- R: f/ I, pTHE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
1 F; O6 }# i* Q G- y# I, B
. T2 ?6 }6 \6 HAnalogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
9 Y4 z& n4 ]# `) C$ O
5 V' Z5 r0 Q; t U, {' y- O7 ] vcar's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?; [+ F# A' H: Q1 A1 [0 k
我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。' _! b" s2 W+ M8 g
如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。; r i) @5 S0 o& I) y( n x
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。; S# S% {) Q$ n
V7 L8 R3 i, G事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个. g7 g" q/ S$ c. V' t
_" J; I3 B& e$ Q" K' |优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样6 a2 e2 N+ j8 r5 P* C" F5 Q% k5 d
U. Q6 I. C% n- D$ t
类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹: R) m7 e9 g1 c+ ~
8 x% m/ v. q7 \! o5 o，对不对？ 怎么会出错？: W# f$ S+ F4 X4 ~9 d5 t
/ \& d( I) e' a% w; U2 Q
; {5 @: o) _$ B& \3 D0 N% u. R9 a5 ?. ~
% L) ]& U1 d% @
hi,
( Q) M5 i9 ~1 I- `1 J/ Yi think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
! S" Y* R! X$ _ }GoldenPine
" x7 H R, D D# T F0 V& y: f: J ~2 j: O
嗨，/ m: K% a1 |( q; d% X2 Q+ n
我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。; P. H1 _, M/ Y2 A/ a% e
3 ^" w6 r2 M0 Smy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
/ N K# m- r1 b3 i9 ]0 }, o. @
5 R' e; ~: X; E5 j5 sat the end?" j& l! Y. h$ f" C; G
我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？
0 a& I: g! s1 j$ x2 M2 C' [' D( b" c4 d2 Z, M' a0 E& [( d
2 W+ l4 x+ K6 P$ a$ \Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
3 X( k- x5 m% M& B" n8 a g4 m3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？7 x' f7 \: _% H. d0 N
, K/ V, @; L4 z% p' y c, R2 d& \, U8 [) J# r! O
its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
8 t$ D V6 M- {' {4 s# P( R正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。. G" h A( z' z- t8 ]6 z' a
( A3 d# @$ t; e" @" P' E7 j& J. v" h: ~- R
10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.% G$ Z6 X9 l2 ~" D- h
, }. o1 K% a' d, GPerhaps you meant 10.006?( e% i4 `8 i+ T/ {' G
' T$ ~& b. P* ?+ M# a/ J3 F0 M
Is your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the( V1 d7 N0 K4 G1 `) C: i* Y" ]+ a) _
/ J2 X* U; l0 o+ e. C
stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the/ u4 j8 F# o6 c) f2 F/ B$ A' y
) n8 {) `$ m6 c/ F& N# aoptimal "attack angle".w+ L; X. i% ]# u
) N5 c2 G0 k8 ^. y* Q& c
Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the
+ s5 o; d: O" s6 ^# |' r0 F* G* r+ B g$ ~, r+ Z- t( J
ring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times1 {" I2 e7 C; o5 p
! q, d3 |& P- \ f) a
(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If$ N$ q6 q; Q }' H1 \; E T' h& v
% q& v3 E' S b. U) C( b+ A; o
it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong.
8 J! [5 \. |3 c: h. [2 S" ^) E* \" ?
If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
5 A# Z/ L5 W8 K9 r/ |$ [$ z3 y. v
$ c& S. V; H; c" k$ m! H10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。
$ Y; O8 k: h' g. A6 u
8 a2 B0 r& K0 t6 R可能你认为是10.006?
$ |& Z0 {" H) O# s你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确; ]/ `. I" |7 t7 f8 G. z2 K
c t, k" I6 d
定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.@- e3 ~$ }: b, d
' ^7 R& l+ H' b7 Y一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度
# f: Y6 g2 C% E# e
3 }3 y2 R U* b! l然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能
- Y* z/ y# @1 ? L
$ j0 U. j. L7 ]; t5 E6 _6 O! Z8 k有错误。
# {( L7 v$ a, J- Q
% k% p' e1 _% p! S如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。( S1 Y: m* F7 _, q0 Q
# p) ^; p9 \+ B' z$ {6 c1 n' a7 z* _" U* Q" T
Agreed Ken,
" @/ x6 T2 T& C3 fThe biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I, x- Z* H q. A$ P- C
. I( K$ |5 m; {# T; i' K, n
realise the choice is not always there.
; A; x1 F/ b8 k+ ^! ^8 z7 b5 H6 A6 F6 Q, n
I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder4 U o* o/ _( V2 J4 q" _* b
4 X; l- B* O3 ~. l5 }9 q
to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.! p8 N# P1 |' k$ a
! z/ c0 A Y3 q* j8 s/ gThe other matters to add up are,
/ Z0 `4 s8 [0 g. m4 Q, d* Ythe uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
$ L" I7 D: E" V5 ethe actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
9 q( m/ V8 `( H' E4 s Rthe algorithm used for the dia result :
0 q1 I$ J$ t+ uroom conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :3 n+ x0 |1 x8 O- d S
. H {. T3 I* B Q# v
2 R; T. n: y& n; nGood luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere., W( a" I+ R& b! o4 W5 b( F
同意肯恩，
4 u# ~. ?" p" p( ~+ ^这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。
% w o) ?; i4 a8 @! A4 A
( b' m$ G" l! [6 U我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确
) G: D4 ~ J" Z3 S- C$ }$ s* R
2 M: H- H$ h! G" [9 `0 k其他因素加起来是，
% U+ S* C) ?2 a3 B机器的测量的不确定：
1 Z) \ Q+ X6 Y5 W* ?环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）:) O) B! X6 j* A4 x8 A
结果圆的运算法则：
1 e5 i+ Y/ S' z" H* k, Y0 H) s, p! m房间环境（临时湿度） :
& N+ y4 i8 E7 b% E5 ?. _; k' T+ M: ?8 h9 I
5 }% O: K9 S- e/ v8 U% j7 \G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!& f( U. {& N3 S
# o' g+ Y9 H# }# T+ f q. f3 Z1 N$ J2 l
, s% X1 L, L) N$ I
, r; V6 S$ q6 h/ y% F; s
Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?( M, u" P. O8 }
, {7 e! M9 T3 S* }
在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？
0 L& g. { K% Z0 B" S$ [+ L
. U1 ~" u6 j& g7 r" F$ b4 m
! U5 ?! ~1 J0 B1 h% d( V$ c
: Q( P# n+ T* I7 u
7 K/ u/ ]) p1 x$ ^+ y2 ?9 y* R. I, r1 p' Z. g& E& ]) |
It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,
' a; `& ]- ^2 D
" B. m' X4 u* G- Z3 ~5 G. O% Vthen use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.# Q- k( N9 J* d- H1 b N
- M" \# t0 `2 pThat includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.7 F( \1 R i V+ `
# r8 g, U0 x0 ?' i( t
As a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
# s2 {: s( {9 E/ r, x; `它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，- |, C/ s6 z+ h4 i0 h
: s, Q( i2 M% P) R% F4 G
使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。. u# a" G* M4 U$ t; H
* O1 u: P1 `) N1 K
那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。, Z# S/ r9 X6 \6 C% u/ `! U4 I" a
/ G$ w( c" x8 E; A
稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？
9 J: N. s3 b- j" M# P) H. y5 c
! a! j: ~3 I9 h% V* q8 ^% [% p+ t% U6 b
I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.e% f9 M: m9 ]- F+ ]7 D, ?3 \# v
( l& l9 u- G8 J# k! G1 S我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆
& `( t& C; \( n- J
7 k5 w: i9 O3 B u/ B, j, G: b& m4 [% i8 f/ n* Y1 C- \
You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!
0 |1 E$ g1 J/ d! u+ b- p- V6 b
+ Q# K# A+ n* S/ F8 E, iWhat type of machine? Manual or CNC
% G( ^. _' |( x @! S# LWhat type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
2 B1 D* s# C9 R3 O& {1 kWhat length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
p0 x# Z1 w+ pWhat is the temperature in the room?: D7 d3 `5 |( D! i6 }1 ~
What diameter is the ring gauge?- o7 Z0 j$ l+ t* f
. i9 V* n7 V& a7 V$ s2 o! Q0 F1 xLet's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 53 w- R2 k! e, J- s$ v+ x* I, K; |
1 @0 V, q$ o3 ^/ i
people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.8 Q9 B/ y: | n2 s. {+ J& f
- X/ G) [1 K4 E% k; k, L
" d/ ^& b$ F# Q9 R% q4 f; x C$ A
你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！; ^& H7 q: k7 ?& h* R( X$ J
2 D }8 V: J. T# T* W# B$ w# t! C4 x哪类机器？手动或自动$ P' F' p5 Q2 _" b$ G& q& D
哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200h5 z% T0 }$ Q3 g
探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米
" G- Z) }* [0 C. _; a, O房间中，温度多少？
6 u) ^; E |8 _+ x% A环规直径为多少？7 E% M' \. r: d" d1 e
' K8 `& f/ Y- r' j6 H让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主:
吟啸徐行
楼主
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
