作者:心结时间:2012-8-24 16:18
可不是，NND，由于自己没盯着，喷个清漆喷个乱七八糟，动平衡不过关最后还得褪漆重新来过……
作者:河豚会吹泡泡时间:2012-8-24 16:19
强烈支持998出本。但估计也没有多少时间天天这样玩。
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-24 16:23
再来看看美国佬的招人要求：
Experience in mechanical design/ packaging to meet temperature, shock,vibration and EMI requirements for military and aviation products.
Must be able to participate as an individual contributor and as a project leader in the design and development of rugged computer and computer peripheral products.
Design military and aviation computer products including laptop computer enclosures,rack mount chassis,board level assemblies and piece parts.
Follow projects from initial specification through qualification, manufacture and entire product lifecycle.
Prepare and check sketches and diagrams, create 3-D conceptual models as well as fullsheet metalassembly models, detailed 2-D fabrication and assembly drawings.
Build and verify prototype designs, and work with other engineering groups and customers to make changes and provements to current designs.
Prepare engineering specifications, bills of material, budgets and schedule estimates.
==========
美国佬搞机械结构的要不要设计机箱？要不要懂钣金工艺？
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-24 16:30
美国佬的要求：
Education:
BSME required
Experience:
Minimum 3 years experience in a hands on product design environment with the requisitemechanical aptitude, visualization, and problem solving skills
Experience with CAD 2D, 3D, and solids modeling of complex objects.
Experience with sheet metal, die cast, injection molded enclosures, plastics and other fabricated piece parts.
Experience with thermal design and analysis.
对照国内的：
工作职责：
（1）负责产品整机设计与开发。
（2）从事 结构设计 标准、关键技术研究及应用。
职位要求：
（1）本科以上学历，机械设计及理论、机械电子工程、材料成型与加工等相关专业，5年以上结构设计工作经验，扎实的机械设计基础知识。
（2）对电信（如路由器）、IT（如刀片服务器、网络存储）类产品结构设计特点及相关标准有深入认识。
（3）熟练掌握 PRO /E、AutoCAD等设计软件。
（4）熟悉UCD、结构工程知识、产品 装配 及制造 工艺设计 、及机械性能测试。
（5）了解热设计、EMC及安规、环境与防护等知识。
（1）负责产品整机设计与开发。
（2）从事 结构设计 标准、关键技术研究及应用。
职位要求：
（1）本科以上学历，机械设计及理论、机械电子工程、材料成型与加工等相关专业，5年以上结构设计工作经验，扎实的机械设计基础知识。
（2）对电信（如路由器）、IT（如刀片服务器、网络存储）类产品结构设计特点及相关标准有深入认识。
（3）熟练掌握 PRO /E、AutoCAD等设计软件。
（4）熟悉UCD、结构工程知识、产品 装配 及制造 工艺设计 、及机械性能测试。
（5）了解热设计、EMC及安规、环境与防护等知识。
==============================
能有多大的本质区别？
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-24 16:32
美国佬的设计水平比国内高，那是必然的
但要说两者完全没有对话的可能性，也是难以令人信服的
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-24 16:47
美国佬搞系统的公司一般自然不会去自己搞机箱加工，深圳的通信设备公司又有几家会自己搞个钣金厂？
作者:everfree时间:2012-8-24 16:49
surfacer 发表于 2012-8-24 16:23
再来看看美国佬的招人要求：
Experience in mechanical design/ packaging to meet temperature, shock,vi ...
VT Miltope designs, manufactures and integrates computer and peripheral equipment that must operate in the most demanding environmental conditions. VT Miltope is a market leader in several commercial and military markets for rugged computers, rugged laptops and peripheral equipment.
========================斗胆翻译一下这段：VT Miltope 设计、制造和集成应用于各种要求和环境条件下的计算机和外围设备。VT Miltope 在多个商业和军工市场所需的坚固型的计算机、坚固型的笔记本和外围设备方面，是市场的领导者。
===========这样看，这家公司首先是家设备制造商，而且机箱应该是它的强项。
作者:xiaoyetongxu时间:2012-8-24 16:54
哦，你们争吧，俺也傻乎乎的看着乐呵乐呵，
最近终于把手里的房产全部抛干净了，赚了一笔中介费还，
马上就经济大萧条，大家准备好了吗？
俺先闪了，大家保重哈。
作者:WWLL13时间:2012-8-24 17:16
说句实在话没有什么可比性,国内的就是一帮奴才领导一帮奴隶,奴隶努力的自以为是天天粪情,
我感觉裆国最理想是在温饱上下浮动,有跳的直接摁死,所以再不去唧唧歪歪
作者:wangceyuan时间:2012-8-24 17:31
“1，教育上的差异，米国在MIT或Yale 念工程技术的家伙，念完两年基础课就休学了，找工厂实习去了，也许一年也许两年再回来，在工厂玩一年再回来念基础课，当然这期间没有多少收入，但人家认了，为了以后在这个行业可以混一辈子，”
先到工厂实习再学基础课，这个身有体会啊，能很快明了。
作者:zhuxiaohua时间:2012-8-24 19:31
有一点很有体会
做一个新东西，我就要亲力亲为，要不，这个新东西肯定失败。
作者:aiwuqing时间:2012-8-24 20:26
这样看来毕业到工厂学习也是应该的，就是不知道像美国佬这种学法在中国10年过去还能不能去上老婆
作者:行走于消逝中时间:2012-8-24 20:43
浮躁啊~大跃进不是一僦而僦
作者:a5248714时间:2012-8-24 20:53
美国公司推出飞行摩托：形似星球大战飞行器
据报道，这种飞行摩托可以在离地15英尺(约合4.6米)高的空中飞行，时速约为48公里。飞行摩托的驱动装置是其下面两个大大的圆盘，利用这两个圆盘的旋转产生上升气流，可让摩托升到空中。
据制造飞行摩托的公司介绍，这种个人飞行器上有两个手柄，可手握以调节行驶速度和高度。同时，飞行摩托内置感应装置，人在上面驾驶时，可以利用身体倾斜产生的重心变化，改变飞行摩托行进的方向。
这家公司称，这种飞行摩托驾驶起来“非常简单，就像骑自行车一样容易。”同时他们还说，由于飞行摩托不受地形限制，可以广泛利用于边境巡逻、空中救援等紧急情况，也可以应用于军事领域。
国人敢想么？
作者:oliver97时间:2012-8-24 20:54
说得在理
作者:原谅我今天时间:2012-8-24 20:55
差不多，这三个字能毁掉多少东西！
作者:取经路上的唐僧时间:2012-8-24 21:54
米国的成功就是尊重技术、尊重专业，可惜你不是鬼佬。
作者:hellboy1226时间:2012-8-24 22:19
在中国不敢一专精，有多少林机会给你留着，还是在年轻时多学，不管什么东西，全当打基础
作者:复苏之风时间:2012-8-24 23:15
终于又见到大侠的好文了
作者:一苇渡江时间:2012-8-25 08:01
看了大侠的帖子身有体会，前段时间装自己新开发的机器，一直盯着装配工人，那里不对就给他指出来，告诉他们要达到什么要求。机器装完了，装辅助设施（翻盒机构），我没有盯着，心想这东西简单，老师傅装应该没有问题。结果试机的时候转不起来，最后还是我自己拆开重装了才弄好，就是一个轴承没有敲到位的问题，在那整的那个累。唉，所有过程最好自己都懂，盯着干，一次性成功，什么问题都不出
作者:bo6543210时间:2012-8-25 09:02
看过大侠以前的帖子，感慨良多，希望大侠以后多多指教
作者:谁会爱地瓜时间:2012-8-25 09:03
认识深刻，见多识广
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-25 10:42
再上牛得一塌糊涂的Cisco Systems：
| Location: | UNITED STATES.CALIFORNIA.SAN JOSE |
|
| Job Title: | Server Mechanical Design Lead | |
| Area of Interest: | Engineering - Hardware | |
| Job Description: | Mechanical Design Technical Leader Opportunity Snapshot: In this role you will be part of team designing the next generation of UCS C-series rack servers. We are looking for candidates who strive in a fast paced start-up like environment. You will be part of a dedicated team, open communications, empowerment, innovation, teamwork and customer success are the foundations of the team. Thus, you set your own limits for learning and achievements. We are looking for a self driven individual who can lead cross functional teams and work closely with a wide variety of internal & external engineering partners to enable them to leverage our products for their needs. Job Requirements: ? Drive requirements and specifications for chassis design of Cisco’s UCS C-series rack servers. ? Strong designer of chassis and mechanical sub-assemblies, with 10+ years experience. ? Understanding of thermal design, acoustics, power efficiency, and finite element analysis. ? Design for high volume tooling and DFM for assembly. ? Provide guidance to other teams on trade offs on costs. ? Work with third-party vendor engineering teams, and drive ODM vendors. Technical Background ? Candidate must have first hand experience in the design or implementation of multiple chassis for the modern datacenter. ? Expert user and knowledge of ProE ? Familiarity with the latest cooling techniques and heatsink design ? Hands on experience with Intel processor based platforms Experience leading small technical teams to complete complicated mechanical assemblies for mass-production |
||
==================================
要不要搞机械结构的？要不要设计机箱？
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-25 10:52
还是思科的，Mechanical Engineer III
| Job Description: | Conceptualize, plan and execute the design and development of 1U switch packaging products. Consults with cross-functional units for product requirements, definitions and design. Defines, directs and participates in the design verification and testing of new products. ? Direct electronics industry experience, well skilled in the art and science of electronics packaging at the board, box and rack level. ? Proficiency in developing conceptual and production designs using Siemens’s NX 3-D solids modeling software, version 10. 4000hr plus of recent experience. Other MCAD application experience considered. ? Has experience in the design and development of tooling for high volume sheet metal, plastic and die casting. ? Expertise in designing high volume, cost effective products that meet worldwide customer, regulatory and compliance requirements. ? Thermal management and structural design expertise. Proficiency using Flotherm for CFD thermal simulations would be a plus. ? Responsibilities include initiating informal reviews of ideas and technical objectives within and across business units. ? Successful Candidate is expected to perform with little management direction ? Exceptional written and verbal communication skills ? Grace under pressure and a positive attitude are mandatory. ? History of successful collaboration with project teams required ? Demonstrates ability to successfully influence win-win cross-functional dynamics. Resolves conflicts by fostering team communications. ? Enjoys working in a fast paced and often multi-project environment. Educational Background Recommended Typically requires BSME or equivalent training with 7-10+ yrs related exp. Preferred: MSME or equivalent |
||
===========================================
学历，工作经验，行业经验，工艺知识，软件操作，这些要求一样不缺，也一样不多，与国内能有什么两样？
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-25 10:58
还是思科的，热设计岗位：
| Job Description: | Conceptualize, plan and execute the design and development of network switch products with emphasis in thermal management. Direct electronics industry experience, well skilled in the art and science of electronics packaging at the board, box and rack level, Must be knowledgeable with all modes heat transfer in electronics (convection, conduction and radiation) and should be able to balance the design to use each mode effectively, efficiently and to the best cost advantage. Good thermal modeling skills are expected and successful candidate should be adept at laboratory methods as well. Proficiency using Flotherm for CFD thermal simulations is required. Consults with cross-functional units for product requirements, definitions and design. Defines, directs and participates in the design verification and testing of new products. -Help define thermal design of Cisco’s products that meets or exceeds the requirements while balancing multiple changing and conflicting requirements. -Develops multiple platforms concurrently. --Collaborate on investigations of new thermal technologies and materials. -Interfaces directly with partner companies in prototype development. - Takes direction and input from product design architects and tech leads in design and implementation of the best thermal solution for the product. -Define, guide and complete statistical data reduction of thermal lab experiments to characterize thermal materials, cooling components, and cooling systems. -Performs extensive Thermal modeling and testing, correlates results, and provides simple and concise summaries to management and non-thermal engineering peers. -Communication of status/results via presentations to thermal/product design team. -Actively participate in cross-functional team design reviews and technology investigations. -Manages work and test done by technicians and lower level engineers. -Expertise in designing for high volume, cost effective products that meet worldwide customer, regulatory and compliance requirements. -Initiates informal reviews of ideas and technical objectives within and across business units. -Proficiency in structural analysis desired -Some expertise in a 3D solids based MCAD system desired. -Experienced in thermal and airflow testing -Excellent communication skills -Experienced in Networking/Computer product development -Experienced with blower and fan design -Experienced with both forced and natural convection, conduction and radiation heat transfer techniques -Experience with manufacturing, thermal parts/components supply chains and cross-communications between design, ODM and third party vendor teams Successful Candidate is expected to perform with little management direction. Demonstrates ability to successfully influence win-win cross-functional dynamics. Resolves conflicts by fostering team communications. Enjoys working in a fast paced and often multi-project environment. Exercises considerable latitude in determining technical objectives of assignment. Completed work is reviewed by management through consultation from a relatively long time perspective, for results. Translates BU level goals in to own work assignments. Interfaces cross-functionally and leads team collaboration extending beyond work group. Requires excellent verbal skills and professional presentation. Sponsors and models exemplary team interaction. Encourages and accepts personal feedback. Mentors junior team members. Demonstrate ability to successfully influence win-win cross-functional dynamics. Resolves conflicts by fostering team communications. Provides technical guidance to small teams. Takes ownership for initiatives and drives on-going evaluation and success. Determines own methods on issue resolution. Uses judgment to solve problems where protocol might not exist. Applies high degree of ingenuity using broad parameters for foundation of decisions. Solve Problems & Make Decisions. Demonstrate Leadership. Establishes Plans. Thinks Globally. Dedication to Customer Success. Innovation and Learning. Educational Background Recommended Typically requires BSME or equivalent training with 7-10+ yrs related exp. Preferred: MSME or equivalent. |
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作者:everfree时间:2012-8-25 11:04
surfacer 发表于 2012-8-25 10:52
还是思科的，Mechanical Engineer III
Conceptualize, plan and execute the design and development of 1U switch packaging products. Consults with cross-functional units for product requirements, definitions and design. Defines, directs and participates in the design verification and testing of new products.
===========这段是职责范围要求，您给翻译一下好吗？
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-25 11:20
再上思科招的中国Senior Mechanical Design Engineer要求：
| Job Description: | Responsibilities: 1.Plan and execute the design and development of system packaging for internetworking products. 2.Defines, participates in the design verification and testing of new products. 3.Leads the resolution of field and product problems. 4.Selects electro-mechanical components such as air movers, heatsinks and complex interconnection systems and supports the evaluation and selection of new suppliers. 5.Provides vendors with improvement recommendations. 6.Responsible for the design and documentation of computer enclosures and related electro-mechanical assemblies using solids modeling techniques. 7.Performs system level structural and thermal analysis and analysis data is in-depth. Involve the determination of form factors, raw materials, and manufacturing processes. 8.Consults with internal cross-functional units for definition and design of product requirements. Be able to take the leadership in the design and development of a sub system in a high complex engineering projects. 9.Involve in developing technical content of the system specification/unit function specification. Identifies issues and technical interdependencies and suggests possible changes. Requirements: 1.Fluency in spoken and written English. Expertise in designing to meet worldwide compliance requirements. 2.Technical expertise in 3D solids based MCAD system and desire for maximum productivity. Proficiency in Thermal Analysis tools (Flotherm, Icepak, etc.) and/or structural analysis SW tools (Ansys, Pro Mechanical etc) desirable. 3.Able to perform complex stress, beam and thermal calculations to guide designs. 4.Proficient in geometric tolerance and tolerance analysis. 5.Able to generate test plans, conduct tests and generate test reports for Thermal and MDVT. Understanding of Safety Agency design criteria and EMC design techniques for modules and enclosures. 6.Works independently, initiates reviews of ideas with stake holders. Interfaces cross-functionally and participates in cross-functional consultation with Customer Services, Mfg, Mktg and HW Engineering. 8.Customer resolution requires excellent verbal skills and professional presentation. Education: BSME with 5-7 years, or MSME with 5+ years, Global work experience with US companies preferred. |
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==================
除了多了一项要求：Fluency in spoken and written English，其它还真的没有本质性差别
作者:everfree时间:2012-8-25 11:45
思科是做系统的，却要有机械设计师，按说这不难理解。但是surfacer社友揪住做系统的不做箱子一句话不放，我想对于不了解工业的外行人来说，这种情况也可以理解。举个例子：波音公司，也是个做系统的，但是他不制造发动机、起落架、液压件、仪表、通讯设备、座椅。。。。。。，但是他必须拥有上述各个专业的工程师，甚至美术设计师，进行各方面设计、研究，否则波音设计不出飞机。思科也是一回事，系统商，不是部件、组件、细分产品的制造商，但是他必须有各个方面的设计师。说到这里，我想surfacer社友应该明白楼主那句话的意思了。
作者:chidiandong时间:2012-8-25 12:02
楼上说的好，998大侠说的更好。
作者:pfizer2001时间:2012-8-25 12:46
宝钢是日本最先进的技术吧！应该宝钢是国内最好的钢铁制造企业？为什么宝钢生产不出来好的钢材？
还有，998说的玩，我很认同，如果不喜欢，去干一件事情，是很崩溃的，美国的大学很累的，要比清华北大累多了去了，不仅仅一个月几次的考试，还有项目，还有很多
德国 或者英国确实很重视技术学校，在瑞士有一个公司叫BUCHI ，里面需要吹玻璃的工人，而这个角色好多是祖传，或者是技术学校毕业就在这个公司做的 公司一般有50-100甚至200年的历史，德国也有好多 公司在一个不起眼的小镇子，镇子里的大部分给这个公司做配套
还有大公司肖特，制作玻璃的，高端的玻璃用于望远镜，光学的，低端的制造很多玻璃仪器，但是质量都很牛
日本的小松，哈哈，那天看兵器杂志，说二战的时候日本生产的坦克，小松专门给生产装甲，术业有专攻，日本人尊敬技师，我们似乎尊敬村长 乡长 县长
有的人说制度不行，我觉得还做台湾的制度，我们能马上好起来么？
不是一天两天了，病入膏肓，民族性格，等等，
苏联的官二代以当一个数学家，钢琴家为骄傲，我们呢/?
子承父业，哈哈 100年来，我们回到了起点！
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-25 13:18
everfree 发表于 2012-8-25 11:45
思科是做系统的，却要有机械设计师，按说这不难理解。但是surfacer社友揪住做系统的不做箱子一句话不放，我 ...
只是针对这句而言“人家玩系统的公司就不玩箱子，有利润也不玩，微软就不玩地产，那是川普玩的，在米国是一个笑料，而玩箱子的公司就玩的精通，无论是散热、是屏蔽、防震，交给人家你就放心得了，”
然而事实告诉我们，思科的“无论是散热、是屏蔽、防震”，应该都搞得不错，并没有完全地“交给人家你就放心得了”
作者:huhaofei时间:2012-8-25 13:21
大侠，必威体育网址的财富啊
作者:surfacer时间:2012-8-25 13:48
阿拉无意与谁抬杠，但你在国内可以玩成一个东西，必须你自己尽力，谁都不能帮你，阿拉自己的体会，假如不是阿拉每件事自己尽力，亲历亲为，自己细致地控制每一个点，早被人家玩死几十次了，没有谁想玩死你，只是人家觉得那东西‘差不多’，就这一个‘差不多’，就玩死了中国的整个工业系统，
======================
华为与思科的数通设备机箱都是富士康伟创力之流做的，华为的工程师要亲历亲为，难道思科的工程师（注：不一定美国人）就不需要？能有多少本质区别？
十年前港X（已关门）的网络设备，贴张NXX的牌子就卖到日本了，日本人那么傻？不怕“玩死了”的中国产品？
作者:孙启明时间:2012-8-25 14:21
天朝玩的是人，外邦玩的是产品和技术，两种思维方式，不可同日而语。
作者:孤酒时间:2012-8-25 14:27
以前的学徒工也要三年，现在看来都觉得不可思议
作者:wuguangzhe11时间:2012-8-25 14:36
中国不是天朝，是技术二流国家。
作者:kuziniezuofu时间:2012-8-25 16:02
孙启明 发表于 2012-8-25 14:21
天朝玩的是人，外邦玩的是产品和技术，两种思维方式，不可同日而语。
眼光毒辣啊呵呵
作者:kuziniezuofu时间:2012-8-25 16:16
有一疑问啊，我朝军工和航天还是可以的，成飞J20,沈飞J21，为什么没转化成高水准的生产力呢？
作者:活的自在时间:2012-8-25 19:17
专业化很重要，小爷玩这个就是精通，你不服？让你看看，人家玩系统的公司就不玩箱子，有利润也不玩，微软就不玩地产，那是川普玩的，在米国是一个笑料，而玩箱子的公司就玩的精通，无论是散热、是屏蔽、防震，交给人家你就放心得了，
这个是真的有啊、。。。。
作者:无独有偶时间:2012-8-25 20:50
亲历亲为，难怪中国的能人都给累死了。
听过一个说法，为什么说快马先死，好刀先钝。
拉磨负重全是快马上，因为快啊，啥都用他，不给累死才怪。
作者:李陈秋123时间:2012-8-30 10:13
8，再说你，我们是要念书的年代没念，大学出来没有基础知识，有些大学生完全不懂公差，不懂材料，什么是钢，什么是铁都没有概念
现在的学生基本上都是这样啊
父母上学是这样,孩子上学还是这样
我就是
作者:杨云123时间:2012-8-30 12:11
心结 发表于 2012-8-24 16:18
可不是，NND，由于自己没盯着，喷个清漆喷个乱七八糟，动平衡不过关最后还得褪漆重新来过……
喷漆对动平衡影响很大啊？什么设备的动平衡
我上次做叶轮的动平衡是喷漆前作的
作者:韭菜炒大葱时间:2012-8-30 13:14
我没资格发表意见，只是看看。
楼上有几位闹的慌，能否理论事情对错，别扯上人呢。
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